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Susan · Senior Member

Internal wash...

Buffington · Guru

The internal wash that we do is not just for the 1/4 limbs, its for all the doll parts. Secrist vinyl is special in that it is created to be translucent, just like a real baby's skin, so that used in combination with the internal wash, you will get much more depth and realism.

Our color is called "Periwinkle Blue" (although it's more of a purplish color). It is a mixture of Dioxazine Purple, White, and a little Pthalo blue. If you get the Beginner Classroom Training dvd it comes with a FREE CD tutorial with photos of all the colors in your paint pallet http://www.secristdolls.com/inc/sdetail/29044 and then use that to make sure your color mixtures look the same!

You can use your fan brush to paint all the way down inside the limbs on the 1/4 limbs, and to get down into the longer ones you can paint part way and the rest just put a few drops inside the limb and shake it around (being sure to turn upside down to drain for about 5 minutes).

-- Edited by Buffington at 18:13, 2008-07-10

Susan · Senior Member

Ok, but i have to put thinner in that mix i suppose because that mixture must be more liquid than creamy rigth??? i don´t know if i explain myself...

Susan · Senior Member

and after that i have to bake it... or wash it (with water)?

heartme_4ever · Veteran Member

yes..the paint has to be watery in consistancy..dnt wash the inside with water once yuve done the internal wash..heat set the paint like yu wood any other layer

Buffington · Guru

Oops sorry, I forgot to finish... Yes the internal wash is made very liquidy with odorless thinner and make sure it's all mixed up well.

Then bake like heartme said, not wash. Do not wash your Genesis paints. And don't forget...

internal wash gets baked for 10 minutes, not 8

-- Edited by Buffington at 05:08, 2008-07-11

Susan · Senior Member

Ok thank you very much heartme and pat!! I`ll do what you said...

Buffington · Guru

You're welcome Susan :)

heartme_4ever · Veteran Member

yur welcome :]

Cuisle · Veteran Member

I'm too scared to do an internal "purple" wash - I've heard too many tales of "bruised" babies. I compensated though on "orange" vinyl toy dolls - one I've completed (pics in Artist Showcase - thank you SO much for that!) and another I'm working on now (will show you pix later) - by doing an EXTERNAL purple wash thingy - sort-of. I HAD to tone down the dreaded orange vinyl, so I made a purple mix, thinned with Genesis thinner (the thick stuff) and used that. I probably overcompensated a bit for the orange, but I wanted to create a "newborn" reddy-purple look, not the "peaches and cream" - I'll try that later. (I'm working on a "pale porcelain" newborn look now). I have not tried your strawberry premixed paints - but I have mixed my own (I've painted in oils before I took up reborning).

I LOVE the Genesis HS Paints - they are NOTHING like the oils I worked with for painting on canvas. I adore the lovely way you can see through each layer - just perfect for the job of creating baby skin.

I'm not a reborner yet - I'm still practising - and having fun doing so!

-- Edited by Cuisle at 10:41, 2008-07-12

Buffington · Guru

Sectist strongly suggests the use of an internal wash (on their vinyl) because of the way the vinyl is specially made to be translucent like a real baby's skin. The internal wash (perwinkle blue) gives it the undertones that shows in babies skin. Just like we do the mottling and veining to show them as realistically as possible.

Although we cannot speak to other maker's dolls and kits, as we do not know their processes and what they are made of (and we do not dare to suggest that you do the internal wash on any of them) we do know our vinyl and the depth it will give to your newborned baby doll if you follow the steps we give/teach.

You can safely do the internal wash if you follow the directions. And with the Genesis paints there is no worry of "bruising" (actually paint migration) in our vinyl. If you feel you have left too much paint in the toe or finger areas, just put one or two drops of your liquid thinner into the limb and swish around, then drain as usual.
What I teach my students is to take the limb in one hand and (for instance using the leg) slap the heal of the foot in the palm of your other hand several times to dislodge any air bubbles that may be keeping excess paint in the toes. Then drain as usual. If you follow these steps I'm sure you will do ok. We do also have "practice limbs" available http://www.secristdolls.com/inc/sdetail/13174 if you want to see how it goes before you try it on a good doll kit. :) I always try to suggest test parts for newbies.

LovesDolls · Guru

When I did an internal wash on Zoe & Missy sculpts it caused bruising in the toes and fingers. After it didn't work with the GHSP and Secrist dolls I stopped doing it. I do NOT recommend it regardless of Secrist's official stance, based on my own experience. I bought the DVD on using the GHSP made by Secrist. So it wasn't an issue of not knowing what I was doing. Something that people may not realize is that the average person buying those DVD's and doll kits is NOT a professional like Stephanie or Danielle or the other moderators. What they may be able to do may be well beyond the average person (especially one who is beginning) ability.

Cuisle · Veteran Member

Nobody wants to risk ruining their high quality Secrist kits - so I've been experimenting with alternative on the toy vinyl dolls. I have more control with external painting and I think that similar effects can be achieved this was. The Genesis Heat Set Paints are beautifully see-through, if you want them to be - so I believe that it is quite safe to "fake it" on the outside. I'm working on another version of this external purple layer - it is very thin and transparent, cools off the orange well, and seems to work - so far. Maybe I'll try it one day - when I'm more experienced and more confident - thanks so much for your input.

LovesDolls - your wee Willow seems to have this lovely porcelain transparent look I am trying to achieve - how did you manage that, please?

LovesDolls · Guru

Cuisle wrote:

Nobody wants to risk ruining their high quality Secrist kits - so I've been experimenting with alternative on the toy vinyl dolls. I have more control with external painting and I think that similar effects can be achieved this was. The Genesis Heat Set Paints are beautifully see-through, if you want them to be - so I believe that it is quite safe to "fake it" on the outside. I'm working on another version of this external purple layer - it is very thin and transparent, cools off the orange well, and seems to work - so far. Maybe I'll try it one day - when I'm more experienced and more confident - thanks so much for your input.

LovesDolls - your wee Willow seems to have this lovely porcelain transparent look I am trying to achieve - how did you manage that, please?

You have it right about not wanting to do the internal wash when inexperienced for fear of ruining the sculpt! I've seen others do the purple wash on the outside and it looks great. I think it is much easier to control the coloring and to fix it if one makes a boo-boo!

Believe it or not what I did to get the porcelain look was not use any flesh colors! I just did the veining and blushing right over the color she comes in. Since Secrist's dolls have perfect vinyl coloring and I was tired of ruining the hands/feet/crevices of my dolls with chalky flesh I decided to just not use them. Since she is a fairy I felt more comfortable not trying to make her look exactly like a real baby. When I *eventually* do Ming, I will do the same thing to give her the porcelain look.

Honestly, I'm *this* close to giving up on babies from most companies because for the life of me I can't get the hang of correcting orangy and over pink vinyl! ARGHH! The only one I am truly happy with is my William (BB's Taite) and that is because he is screaming and suppose to be pink!

Buffington · Guru

LovesDolls wrote:

When I did an internal wash on Zoe & Missy sculpts it caused bruising in the toes and fingers.

Like I said above, its because there was excess paint trapped in the fingers and toes that was not removed. This is why I told about my method of getting it out of there and also using a few drops of the liquid thinner to lessen the amount of color there. But you gotta be willing to smack that foot or hand in your palm to remove it. This is the only thing that causes the blue look there.

But it remains up to each individual to experiment and to do what is ultimately up to them, internal wash or no internal wash. We can only tell what is recommended and you take it from there. Experiment, find your own style, have fun... these are some of the things that make it enjoyable

LovesDolls · Guru

Unfortunately, that wasn't part of the DVD that I watched last summer/fall when I actually was painting them.

Buffington · Guru

If you mean the smacking the limb in your hand part, no it was not. I figured that part out when I had the same problem so that is what I teach.

When you use the Genesis, because they are heat set, its not actually a paint migration problem but rather just too much paint in those areas.
Paint migration is when the paint (usually acrylics, inks and dyes) actually seeps into the vinyl itself and spread into other parts, like when you put a paper towel over some water and it wicks and spreads.

-- Edited by Buffington at 05:21, 2008-07-14

LovesDolls · Guru

I thought that they eventually figured out that if you didn't bake for 10 minutes for internal wash that it could still bruise?

Buffington · Guru

We found out that if you don't bake the Genesis internal wash for the 10 minutes that it is not cured and permanent.

precious_lullabies · Guru

i never do the internal wash. even on my secrist kits.

LovesDolls · Guru

Buffington wrote:

We found out that if you don't bake the Genesis internal wash for the 10 minutes that it is not cured and permanent.

That is the problem then. I don't think I baked the babies for 10 minutes when I did the matte finish so they probably were never baked long enough. When I buy my next Caucasian Secrist baby I might try the internal wash again. I'm thinking of doing Honey for my aunt. I have 3 different dolls picked out for her but (as I've said a million times) I'm so frustrated with trying to correct vinyl colors I'm leaning more and more toward Secrist sculpts.

Buffington · Guru

The reason we bake the "internal" wash for 10 minutes is that inside the parts there is no air as there is on the outside. So when it bakes all the moisture stays in, whereas on the outside it gets a chance to dry and evaporate. If you do the wash on the outside you will only have to bake it for the usual 8 minutes. It's just the inside for 10 :)

Miss Reborner · Senior Member

Okay, so what if I do the internal wash and for some reason it does 'bleed'. Is there any way to fix it? I'd just hate to ruin my doll. If the problem is 'unfixable', is it really worth the potential problem to get the 'undertones' right with the internal wash? Thank you all so much.

notalent111 · Senior Member

Can someone explain the internal wash to me a little better please? I watched my DVD, but it really didn't go into as much detail as I would have liked.

~Do you do the veins first before the wash?
~How do you know you have achieved the "right" color and won't have a bruised baby.
~What if your baby does turn out bruised? Is the kit ruined, or can it be removed?
~What is the consistency of the internal wash? Extremely runny or more with substance?
~Will the doll still come out fine if you decide you are too nervous to do the internal wash?

Thanks!

Miss Reborner · Senior Member

Ladies, does the silence on this topic mean that yes, the kits are ruined and doomed to stay bruised? Some of you mentioned this this 'bruising' happening, what did you do with the kits? Thanks.

shakyhandsme · Senior Member

Okay, first off this is NOT the official Secrist way of doing the internal color for dolls..... However, it is my way. I use Rit Dye, mixed one bottle of liquid dye with a gallon of water. I heat the mix to an almost cup of coffee heat, (I drink my coffee a little light, no sugar) pour it inside of the doll parts that I have already washed out with very hot water and allowed to dry. I set a timer for 3 minutes, dump the dye back into the container, shake or tap lightly to remove any excess droplets of dye, and set them in a dish drainer to drain and dry over night. If I don't like the color inside in good sunlight, if it is not dark enough, I repeat the process using a two minute time instead of 3.
Not everyone likes this method... I get that... I'm just putting it out as an alternative.

Pat C.

shakyhandsme · Senior Member

Brain freeze!
Do NOT toss away your dye... it can be stored and reused for quite a number of dolls. I use a purple color although I know of people who use a blue color.

Pat C.

Date: Aug 12, 2008

Looks like this subject has been batted around for a lot of reborners. I read all the inputs. I want to do the wash on the outside but not sure if it should be stroked on or pounced on. Can anyone out there in reborner land help me with this? My first impulse would be to use the wedge foam sponge to pounce it on. I guess if it doesn't look good I can remove but I would still like some input as to what method might work best.
Thanks

TinyEarthAngels · Guru

Hi Frances when i do a wash i paint it on with a paint brush in small section then go over it with my sponge/cosmetic wedge to blend it all in, I work in small sections till i have covered my entire piece hope this helps (((hugs)))

Buffington · Guru

That sounds good. As long as you don't leave any streaks or overlaps with the wash, use both things like TEA Frances. It doesn't matter how you get there, its the results you get with your method. Experiment, have fun, develop your own techniques :)

LovesDolls · Guru

Miss Reborner wrote:

Ladies, does the silence on this topic mean that yes, the kits are ruined and doomed to stay bruised? Some of you mentioned this this 'bruising' happening, what did you do with the kits? Thanks.

The bleeding gets into the vinyl. So as far as I know you can't fix it! My dolls it happened to are just as is.

Date: Aug 14, 2008

Thank you both.
This really helps.

Date: Sep 6, 2008

So why would you want to put the internal paint on the outside? what effect does that acheive?

LovesDolls · Guru

The purpose of the internal wash is to mimic the effect of having blood inside our body, lol. That sounds funny. It adds some depth to the skin, making it more realistic. Now that I know what I did "wrong" on my first ones, I'll will try it again with the next Secrist doll I buy that I'm making light in skin coloring.

Date: Sep 10, 2008

why would you put the internal paint on the outside and not on the inside? Or do you do both? Is it just a personal preference of the SHADE of the wash? You know what I mean? The inside it would be subtle and on the outside it is more obvious??

firefall · Member

Is there somewhere that gives the exact amount to mix...such as 1 oz. or 2 oz. to every small container (1/2 oz.?) ? One person's idea of a wash may not be another's and I have no clue at all. A it appears that the veins are like that too....I am sooooo afraid of messing this up!

Buffington · Guru

Some people like to put the wash on the outside. I have heard some in forum say it just puts a final coat on the bub. I think it's all personal preference (IMHO).

If you watch the newborning I or II (II is the painting with Genesis one) DVD Stephanie will show/tell you how to do it.

As far as colors, I like the Secrist Genesis petite pre-mixed paints. The color is all there for you. All you do is add thinner. Especially with the internal wash, you just add the thinner. And you make it so thin almost like water. I believe its at least a 10 to 1 ratio. Very watery. Same with the vein color. Very watery. Less is more with the Genesis ladies (and guys). You can always do more coats but its hard to take them off once you got them baked. ALWAYS put your paint on lighter than you think it should be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You won't mess up your baby if you go with less paint per time. I'm serious!

firefall · Member

Thank you....is it supposed to look as thin/as clear as in the demonstration? Can you tell I am a newbie??? Lol! Sort of like I have come to the edge....now I just need to jump in there and do it!

Mo · Senior Member

I Do the internal wash at the beginning, making it quite thin, then after I have painted the 2nd mottled skin colour I then put a little bit of periwinkle blue on the areas that are normally translucent such as bridge of nose, eyelids, temples etc. The effect is really good and realistic!

Buffington · Guru

Jump in! :O
Yes do it like the demonstration. You can adjust later once you have the basics down.
NAW, can't tell you're a newbie lol hehehe

Date: Dec 15, 2008

hi on internal paint i use apple barrel arcylic paint royal violet english lace and creamy peach put 1 ounce royal violet one ounce english lace and 1-1/4 ounce of creamy peach my babies never have the bruised look

Buffington · Guru

I'm glad it works for you :)
Secrist does not recommend the use of acrylics on any of their kits. We only recommend Genesis as it is completely compatible with our vinyl, and as far as I know there have been no cases of paint migration with proper use of the Genesis Heat Set Paints and our vinyl.

Lucia · Veteran Member

Hi everyone!! Happy New Year!!!Lots of fun and sucess with the babies that are coming to be reborning!!!and lots of fun with our friendship in reborning!
Well, I finished my first reborn, Zoe, and I followed step by step the DVD, and....after reading all this topics....thanks God!!!Everything went so ok with my internal wash.
I think that because I was not worried about things that could go wrong.(.I didnot know could go wrong....just scared now....lol...) But I saw the DVD more than one time. For my next baby, that will be Lollypop ( I already ordered her!) I will do the same way. As Pat said, the mix was very very watery. As I am very very newbie to reborn, I am using only the Genesis kits of Secrist.
I hope it works for you. Anyway, my next baby, after Lollypop, will bee Sparrow.Do we do the internal wash in the bi-racial baby dolls too?

sara zata · Guru

I know how you felt, I had been making porcelain dolls for 20 odd yrs and was worried ,I'd stuff up. As I had started with inks, GHSP was a worry for me, untill I bit the bullet and decided it was time. Have just sold Hannah and Zoe before xmas, although Zoe was ink Hannah was GHSP, she turned out lovely and the people that bought her though so to. Happy reborning and good wishes for the new year to all. XXXXX June. disbelief

-- Edited by sara zata at 02:59, 2009-01-10

Georgiaga · Senior Member

OK, did Rosie's internal wash tonight and baked.
My question is: confuse

Why did there appear to be several round spots in different areas onf the head such as in a corner of the eye where the eyebrow ends nearest to the ear...on the scalp area, and above the ear? I shook it up well and I did just like pat did in the DVD and added about 10-12 drops and swirled it around and fsmoothed it evenly all over the inside with a fan brush...tapped it on a paper towel to get the excess out if there was any and even fanned it again after that to make sure it was not pooling...?
still a few small round droplet looking areas on the outside from the inside...DId I not shake the paint enough, do you think? Like maybe these were areas of hard pigment? That's all I can come up with, but I really shook it for almost a whole minute. Help!
It's not so bad that the skin texture won't cover it up...it's really very light , but I just thought I'd ask. Thanks, G. hmm

Buffington · Guru

It could be that the paint was not mixed enough. Did you stir the paint in the little pot before you scooped some out to add to the thinner? It might be good to read the stickies about the different types of paints Secrist carries just in case.

Or it might just have been humid, or maybe just a fluke. I usually lay my head on it's side for about 5 mins, then turn, 5 more... Then I do the papertowel thing, then look inside just before baking and maybe go round with my fan brush just to make sure. And the internal wash needs 10 minutes instead of the usual 8 because it's inside the head with not much circulation.

Hope this helps :)

Georgiaga · Senior Member

Yes, I stirred it in the paint pot with a craft stick like Pat does in his DVD and then added it to 3/4 bootle of Odorless thinner , also following his instructions and shook well. It was spotty before I baked it , I mean as soon as it was done, it spotted, but like I said, it;s so light even after the bake that I think the skin texture will cover it, but was just wondering. Maybe those are areas of falw in the vinyl?

Buffington · Guru

Hmmm... guess I really don't know the answer to that one then hun. Sorry. But at least you think the other layers will lessen it so that's good. :)
Keep us posted

sara zata · Guru

Hello, Sevitania, If yoiu use the search and write your question, this is what you will come up with. All the questions and answers everyone has asked or given advice on. Hope it helps you. XXXXX June.

Buffington · Guru

Thanks for giving that advice June!