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Post Info TOPIC: HELP!! NEEDLES NEEDLES NEEDLES


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HELP!! NEEDLES NEEDLES NEEDLES
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furious I'm tired of buying needles, and confuse confused about which needles to buy and hmm frustrated by all the descriptions of the various types and  sizes of needles. 

smile I need some clarity!! 

What is the difference between "regular" rooting needles and the "CROWN" ones?
Why are there special eyelash rooting needles that are actually not as fine as the hair rooting needles?
How many barbs do you really need: 1,2 3, 6?
When it says one barb on three sides of the needle is that good?
And the biggie - the German forked needle?  Who uses that and is it really very hard to use?
I'm sure there are a jillion questions I'm not asking, but feel free to add more!
I'm new at this, but I'm persnicikety (sp?), and I hate the look of big holes or 3 or 4 hairs in a hole, but I can't seem to get anything else to happen.

Are there stronger needles that don't break as much - maybe different metals? I've even heard of "surgical steel" ones.

Finally, WHY OH WHY doesn't someone like Secrist or another online seller make a set of the various needles.  An assortment package so people could really learn which ones they like without having to buy the wrong ones over and over again.  There must be some way the needles could be packaged so they could be identified. Maybe color coded (the rear end of a needle dipped in some paint signifying the blue one is a german forked, the green one is a 42g3barb, etc.)

I'm sure I speak for many newbies when I say I would buy it. 



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OMG. I would. That would be awesome. A starter set of rooting needles and various handles.

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I will try to answer as best I can so hopefully you're not confused...

First... the guage of the needle is the thickness of the metal. The thinner the needle, the higher the number (ie: 42 guage is thinner than a 36 guage).

I started rooting many years ago with a 36 guage needle. Very sturdy, and 3 barbs (or slits) on each side and 2-3 rows of them. Gave a very pluggy root because it took in many hairs at a time.

Rooting needles are usually triangular. It has been explained to me that the crown needles are more star shaped. Why I don't know, and I've never used them. Some of the artists in the UK use them.

The special eyelash rooting needles are not really special needles. They are usually 38-40 guage needles with more than just the 3 barbs. I personally don't use them, I like to use the 42 guage needles which are finer. You don't have to use the "eyelash" needles as any needle will work (not sure about the German forked no barbs though).

The "barbs" are there to pull hairs into the head. The more barbs you have the more hairs in one hole you will get. Its all personal preference IMHO. I prefer the 42-43 guage triangular needles with 1 barb on each side of the triangle. Someone else might come in and say they like the 40 guage instead.

The German Forked or also called no barb needle has a smooth shaft with only 1 barb or fork on the very tip of the needle. Kind of like this ==

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That helps. Thank you.
But what did you think of the suggestion about the "assortment pack" of needles? Liselle and I would buy them!

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I think it is all trial and error, but like Pat said, 42/43 with 1 barb is a good one, but if you are filling a head of hair and cant see the roots then the more barbs the better. XXXXX June.

-- Edited by sara zata on Thursday 23rd of December 2010 05:07:32 AM

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I think the starter pack of needles for newbie rooters would be nice. I thought I commented on this but I may have just been thinking with my fingers again hehehe

Anyway... but my question in the case of assortment, how many of what size should be in the package? I suppose fewer 38 guage and a few more each of the 42/43 guage.
And should the "L" end of the uncut needles be left on or cut? It depends on what handle you use.

And handles... Secrist offers 2, the plastic mushroom (that uses uncut needles, and I love this one) and the wooden one (that uses cut needles). Also, as you offer more handles, the price would increase moderatly.

So, IF I had money, I would certainly offer this "needle kit" to my customers, but alas, I'm flat broke. Can't even afford to list a baby on evilbay. As a dealer this is pretty sad.
But the idea in theory is great, IMHO! :D

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Pat, I won't name names, but I found an assortment pack on another site (oh no, not another site!! How could I?). I really wanted them, and then I stumbled on some. Anyway, there are three each of nine different needles and, yes, I did have to order them.

Oh, I found out today that using a bigger, fatter rooting needle works better than a toothpick for getting those little eyelashes on.

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Hey, pm me with the site will ya please? I'd like to see what they have for sizes and stuff.

Ya, nice thing about using a rooting needle is that the glue will come off easily lol

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I let the glue almost dry before applying them and have no problem getting it over the eyes, cutto length before the glue. XXXXXX June.    PS, Pat, the sad thing is, that  most of us all over the world is in the same boat, and we're sinking fast.    LOL.  

-- Edited by sara zata on Friday 24th of December 2010 04:40:07 AM

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Thats a good idea June for lashing. I'll have to try that one. I usually use E6000 for lashes as it stays flexible and you can get it off if you need to.

I know that one! But they say that shoppers were spending much more all over the world so we're coming out of the recession. In the jewelry world (which is the very last thing to show an upswing in the economy) it's come up some, not just for Christmas. Not mine of course lol

This is ok to post in forum as she's a Secrist dealer... Stephanie at Hunny Buns is the one with the needle assortment. Thanks Brooke for that info.

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OK...I bought some test parts...limbs, so I made a warewolf arm tongiht!LOLbiggrin

I just needed to try rooting so I did it on an arm and I only have the Secrist standard mohair that came in my course #3 kit for Rosie so I used that. I started with the 38 needle. No problems as long as I was going in at a 45 degree angle and not 90 degrees- straight in or the hair woudn't lay. I broke 2 needles, LOL!confuse

It seems to be taking in 2-3 hairs in each hole. Is this correct for a 38 needle? I don't know if it is a regular or crown as it came with the course and only says 38 on the little needle tube.

I find it looks to pluggy looking as this is dark brown hair. Does that mean I would prefer a 40 or 42 needle in the future?

Also, I adore all Secrist products so far, EXCEPT this "standard" mohair which I find to be cheap and yucky. It's coarse no matter what direction and looks like singed human hair. I guess as an x- hair designer this just won't do for me. I may have to get some from Slumberland or get human hair.

Are you supposed to comb the little section you take to start with before rooting? I did and little round lint-like balls came out of it. Maybe because it's low grade for learning on...?blankstare

I cut the end and I tied a rubber band snug but not tight around the lock of hair about an inch and a half from the cut end and went for it! I saw that on someone's tutorial online.

Do you always need to lay the lock horizontal to your verticle needle?
Sorry for all the questions but I finally am starting rooting for the first time and need info.
So let me know if:
1. I am supposed to comb the lock out first before rooting
2. I am supposed tolay the lock in a horizontal direction to the verticle needle
3. If 38 needle takes in 2-3 hairs is correct or not
4. If I need to try a 40-43 guage needle as I don't like the pluggy look of the 38 so far with this brown color hair. Would better quality mohair look less pluggy or is it all the size of the needle holes?
Thanks all! Georgiasmile


-- Edited by Georgiaga on Sunday 16th of January 2011 02:30:18 AM

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38 guage has about three barbs, and are thicker, 42 and 43, which I have yet to try, have only one barb and a finer, more likely to break so be carefull. As you said about putting them in on an angle, that is correct as that is how humans hair goes, get some pictures of small babies, I think a picture always helps. Now that I have finished my projects with the porcelain baby fairies, I will be starting some reborns soon. XXXXX June.

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blankstareThanks Sara Zata!

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I found some info on another forum for needles so I thought I'd post it. It's from Kathy:

"different types of needles and which one is for you...

36# best for beginers
38# Fine
40# Very fine
42# Super fine
43# Extremley fine
46# Almost Invisible

Star.... (the stem is a cross formation with 2 barbs to each face placed randomly = 8 barbs )
Crown ..( the stem is a triangular formation with 3 barbs all at the same level 1/4" from the tip )
Fork.....( Round stem with a groove at the tip )
3 Barb..(Triangular stem formation and randomly placed one barb to each face = 3 barbs )
1 Barb...(Triangular formation and one barb placed 1/4" from the tip = 1 barb )"

Hope this is helpful

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Yes and I broke 3 needles 30 G tonight rooting my Rosie! She is almost rooted all over. Just need to do the last half of the back and then fill in ...My swirl is not looking like a swirl...it is moving in a circular direction but too wide . rooting that will take some practice!

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If it's any consolation... I broke a bunch of needles when I first started rooting. :o
And... after 5 years of rooting, I just got the swirl about 6-8 months ago! Hows that? hehehe

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We are the most critical of our own works!
 
Current avatar: Hayden sculpt

 www.timelesstreasurebabiesnursery.mysite.com

Pat B. --
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Secrist and AV Dealer
Secrist Factory Certified Teacher

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