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sara zata · Guru

Placement of eyes

babylover · Veteran Member

Thanks so much for the info - I find myself guessing. Sandy McGee

Tina W. · Guru

Thanks June, eyes can be a bit hard to do sometimes.

Play Days Dolls · Guru

I really appreciate the info, June! Once in awhile, I set the eyes to look slightly off on purpose so they resemble my twins when they were babies. Amazingly, they looked kind of cute at the time. (They eventually had surgery to correct the eye muscle so they look okay now. LOL)

Anyway... thanks again.

Buffington · Guru

Thanks June! With the light (or highlight) of the eye, make sure they are both in the same place on each eye and even if they don't look like the eyes are aligned (because of eye lid shape) you can be assured that they are if the light hits them both in the same spot.
I am working on a baby right now and I have her/him looking to the side but one eye looks crossed-eyed. It's not of course but it does look that way because both eyes were not sculpted in the vinyl identically. But the light hits them in the same place so I know they are positioned right. :)

Tina W. · Guru

I won't be showing my little Tanner then ashamed

LOL I have such a hard time with eyes! He's my second one I just finished today. I think they came out fine but wow what a time I had putting them in! He'll stay in my collection. I cut the slit in the back but it was so thin that is ripped ( in the back ) as I inserted them! and they didn't want to stay in place!! They are in there now but what a time I had! I wanted to do the paper glaze but I'm scared to death to mess it up, I know it will better secure them but too scared!

-- Edited by Tina W. on Sunday 13th of December 2009 08:45:24 PM

sara zata · Guru

Tina, you can trim the back, just put a bit of E6000 to hold them while you move them into position( Don't get it on the eye itself, just the white part) as it doesn't set straight away, once you are happy with position let that dry then cover with silicone, it will take a bit longer to set. If I am in a hurry, I will cut a bit of felt and cover that so I can still weight the head, as you have already rooted before setting the eyes, I presume. Because most of the Secrits don't come with plugs, I also use a heavy calico to seal the head after filling and weighting, that also helps to hold the eyes in( The filling and weighting.) Hope this helps. XXXXX June.

sara zata · Guru

Linda, my first son had turned eyes and had surgery to fix one, the other was to be done in the Jan, they said the cord that holds the eye was only as thick as cotton, should have been like string, well that was back in 73. We lost him on Boxing Day 73 with a congestive cardiac. Thus the Name "Sara Zata " Heavens Angels. Made up from each of my other childrens first 2 letters of their first name. SA, for Samantha, RA, for Rachel, ZA, for Zane and TA, for Tamara. This is probably why I am so focused on setting the eyes correctly. Yet I haven't wanted to do a reborn that resembles him. His name was( is) Sean Austin Marrs, his, his fathers and Samantha's initial's spelt Sam. I have an elf that I have made in his memory, it is a comical version. As in his short life he made everyone happy. As you might say, life and sole of all the kids parties. XXXXX June

-- Edited by sara zata on Monday 14th of December 2009 01:45:39 PM

sara zata · Guru

Just putting this up again to help the one going crazy, as this is something she may not have read. I hope it helps. XXXXXX June

livingdoll · Veteran Member

Are you putting the eyes in from the back or the front I always put my eyes in from the front as I don't like to cut the back of the vinyl. By putting them in from the front they are very secure and I move them around till they are in there right position

Play Days Dolls · Guru

I prefer putting them in from the front also, but sometimes it isn't possible. If I add rooted lashes to an open eye doll, for instance, I put the eyes in from the back. The advantage to putting them in from the back in that situation is that the glue used also seals the lashes.

If the eyes can be inserted from the front, warming up the vinyl makes the insertion even smoother and it's easy to position the eyes.

Play Days Dolls · Guru

June, thank you so much for sharing the story of your first son and how the name Sara Zata came into existence. I'm so sorry you lost him.

I just love the way you developed the name Sara Zata. I always wondered if your name is really Sara born in June. LOL

sara zata · Guru

No my name was June Hope and I married Sam, before my mother passed, I asked if I could change my name from June, I have no middle name, she said it was OK by her. Well I looked in the mirror and immagined every name but it still came out as June. LOL. As for putting in the eyes, I prefere putting them in from the front, but the Ellknoops ones seem to be the hardest to position correctly, so those I put in from the back. XXXX June.

sharon · Member

what are your very favorite eye, the most relistic???and from where. thank you

Play Days Dolls · Guru

Sharon, I'll let the others respond on this because I can really only comment on the Secrist eyes.

By the way, welcome to the forum!

Buffington · Guru

I have either used or seen many different types of eyes used in the doll world (having been in it for over 20 years now). I have found that I have 2 favorites:

Secrist Real Brand Doll eyes and Masterpiece soft glass eyes.
The Secrist are my favorites because you can bake them in your clay (most of the others you can't), they are optical grade acrylic (like prescription glasses), they are the most closely realistic acrylic eyes on the market, and they just bring my babies to life (IMHO)!

The Masterpiece eyes (only the soft ones) feel like human eyes, although not as realistic looking as the Secrist, but they fit my porcelains like a dream.

Most of the other eyes will change color or fade over time. I have replaced a few pairs over the last 20 years for customers. I always use the Secrist Real Eyes brand as my choice of replacement.

sara zata · Guru

Difinately Secrists, the only other type I use is oval glass eyes, mostly in my porcelain dolls as when you cut and bevel out the eyes, these canbe used to suit the shape of the eye easily. Secrists are more realistic. XXXXX June.

Buffington · Guru

I never tried the oval eyes June. I always ended up beveling the eye socket till the Secrist eye fit right. Or if that didn't work I went to Masterpiece soft eyes. Those always fit but back 15-20 years ago they were still $28.00 a pair, very spendy then. I think when I toured the Secrist factory, Mr Secrist told me that the iris of the real eyes is actually a photograph like image that was taken of real human eyeballs! Plus how they are made, it's amazing to watch them put the eyes together!

I try to put the eyes in from the front too on the kits that its' possible. Some, like little Lollipop or Corey (I broke a head in half trying to put Corey's eyes in, OH MY!) just are not possible. So sometimes it's just easier to put them in from the back even if it takes more time (or glue) lol.

sara zata · Guru

Thats good to know, have you seen on the artificial eyes being made, it is spectacular. They start with a piece of coral and make it round, I'm not sure how it works but then they paint an eye to match the other eye in the person, once finished it is put in place and stiched so the tissue can grow though the coral. It was fasinating. XXXXX June.

Buffington · Guru

WOW! June, that sounds fantastic! I'd love to see that. I have a friend who has a glass eye (prosthetic) and he has to take it out each night like a contact lense because he said it gets bacteria and contaminents so it has to come out and be cleaned. I wonder what they do with the eye you're talking about?

I also have a friend in OZ who's son lost his eye in a freak accident (didn't wear eye protection while working with cutting wood) and he has an artificial eye. Instead of an iris and pupil on it he wanted to get his favorite beer logo on it. He didn't of course but...

Cheri Sullivan · Member

Hello

I just found your post regarding securing eyes to be very helpful, and I have a couple more questions. I'm almost ready to list my ROMIE STRYDOM reborn Claire (Kirk) on ebay. He's my first to be sold, and he is so beautiful I don't know if I can actually part with him. My only concern is with one of his eyes. He has soft glass Masterpiece Eyes. They were expensive and I waited 5 weeks for them to be handmade. They are absolutely heart-stealing! The overall size of the half eyeball was too large to set in from the front or through a flap in the back, so the back of the eye had to be excized away. One eye in particular does not want to stay put. It works itself slightly to the side and moves back away from the socket. So the gaze doesn't match up, and it is inset too far.

These eyes aren't supposed to require gluing, and because they are soft they do grab the vinyl. In cases where they can be inserted into a closed socket they probably don't need gluing. I tried a type of Aleen's clear glue and held it for almost half an hour, but after it seemed set, it gradually moved again. I don't want to damage these eyes, but I think it needs a more serious glue. I bought some Beacon's 3-in-1 Advanced Craft Glue from Hobby Lobby, (maybe similar to the one you mentioned?) It says crystal clear, acid free and waterproof. It also says instant grab and fast dry, which didn't seem like a bad idea since I held the former attempt for so long and it still moved afterwards.

Here are my questions: how long do you hold the eye in place by hand before you can be pretty sure it won't move permanently? Do you affix lashes after eye insertion or before, and do you use the same glue? (glue smudging issues) What is the silicone product you refer to that seals the eye from the back, and where can I buy it? Is it possible to post photos of the way you do the eyes, including this backing process? It seems to me that the eyes are the one thing that can shift during shipping and I want to make sure my buyers don't have problems.

I really appreciate your help with this issue. Thanks so much.

Cheri Sullivan

Buffington · Guru

I thought I posted here but it's gone... must have been the glitch faries again lol. I'll come back in after work today. Sorry. :D

sara zata · Guru

Wished I had keep details of the show I was watching. So great. XXXXX June.

Buffington · Guru

I use E6000 to secure the eyes in my dolls. I find that any white glue is mixed with water (acrylic) and will dry out and loose it's grip, thereby causing the eyes to come loose. I also don't use them for either gluing hair inside or putting on lashes for the same reason. I have had to redo many wigs and lashes in the first 10 years of my over 20 year doll making history. lol

So... make sure there are no rough areas in the eye socket where the eye and kit connect so they will sit flush into the front of the socket.
Insert the eyeball into the socket, then position the soft eye as you want it to be. I was taught with the soft eyes to insert a very thin straight-pin into the eyeball from the front of the face, putting it right at the place where the retina and white of the eyeball meet. Make sure the pin is completely clean otherwise you make get an insertion mark when you remove the pin.
Push the pin through the eye from one side to the other making sure the pin will rest on vinyl at both the tip and the head, thereby holding the eyeball snugly in place for gluing.
Sueeze enough E6000 into the head, behind the eyeball/socket to completely cover the back. I find that I don't need any fabric to back the socket doing it this way. Place the face into a bowl, eyeballs facing down to allow the glue to dry for at least 1 day before moving. You may remove the pins after about 4 hours, making sure the eyeball doesn't move. You can also do one eye at a time if you like.
hope this helps hun. :D

I would post pics in the artist showcase hun but inside the head doesn't photograph very well. If you are going to apply fabric backing, make sure you wait at least 20 minutes to allow the glue to become tacky, then use cotton fabric (not felt) and be sure to use white or flesh colored fabric. I have kept a wooden chopstick for this purpose. Its long enough and if it gets too full of glue, you can always throw it away. lol

June, I wish you had a link for that show, it would have been kool to watch!