I know this is a Secrist forum, but I am looking for advice/experience in reborning ready made dolls from other companies. Specifically, I have purchased a few Ashton Drake "So Truly Real" dolls and a few Paradise Galleries dolls off eBay, with the sole intent of reborning them. I know some people start with Bereguers, but I don't have any of those. I purchased these dolls because they were less expensive than trying to buy a doll "kit" from Secrist or BB.
A few things I am wanting to know:
- How difficult are they to take apart and put back together? Can the "body" be reused, or will I need to purchase a "new" body for them?
- How difficult is the vinyl to strip, paint, and root?
- Is this more of an "advanced" thing to do, whereas I really *should* buy a kit to start with?
Thanks in advance for any/all help! I need it! LOL
Hi Cumberland Queen. I did a Berenguer, which is my avatar. I had a hard time taking the paint off because I used acetone which discolored the head, but paint did cover it up luckily. It had the grooved hair and I used a Dremil Tool to take grooves off. To me it was very hard to make the head smooth. Another thing the head was extremely hard and rooting the hair was a nightmare...even though I did heat it. Got her finished, but was not totally happy with the results. It can be done but, I prefer the doll kits, especially Secrist. They advertise they are easy to work with and they are. I love the lighter and softer vinyl. Hope you the best with your journey into this wonderful hobby.
I've haven't done any Ashton Drake's or Paradise Galleries, though I do have a Paradise Gallery baby waiting to be reborned. I've done 2 Berenguer's, and here's my take on them.
As to taking them apart, this was pretty easy. I used an exacto knife. Just remember to cut towards the part of the limb that's not going to show, as it's pretty easy to nick the vinyl a bit. If the bodies are not jointed, then yes, they'll have to be replaced. I'd go with a Secrist body.
I did not remove the paint, but rather used it as a guide for my own painting. I don't know if that would work with all paint methods, though. I used stencil cream paints and acrylics.
Rooting the Berenguer's is a nightmare, even with heating the head. The Paradise Gallery baby I have now has much softer vinyl, so it should be much easier to root. I don't know what the AD vinyl is like.
I haven't done a kit yet, so I don't know if that's much easier. Definitely the softer vinyl is a plus, but the other prep work really isn't that hard. It's all a matter of choice. Neither is really 'advanced' or 'beginner' that I would think.
Hope this advice is helpful. Good luck on your reborning!
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I haven't had any experience reborning AD or PD dolls but I've read about other reborners experiences.
The disassembling is easy. Just snip the cable ties to remove the limbs. The all vinyl AD dolls don't have cable ties. They are strung up. I don't know what they did for those types. Like Miss Reborner said, if the body isnt jointed, you will more than likely want to get a jointed body for it.
To remove the paint and hair, they used goof off. Its really smelly. You should use it outside with gloves and be careful! Genisis paints adhere to the vinyl better with a clean slate.
The AD vinyl and PD vinyl is soft so rooting should be easy.
The good thing about having kits is that you don't have to strip the doll and sand down the hair grooves if it has any. Taking apart a doll isnt advanced, there is just more steps.
Winsor & Newton Brush Cleaner and Restorer is terrific for stripping paint. It doesn't have a strong odor, and the paint just seems to melt off the doll.
I have done AD, PG and Berenguers, they were all easy to take apart. I would invest in a pair of kelly clamps and a small pair of wire cutters. They can cut the cables or strings and you don't have to worry about cutting the vinyl or you, but like heartme_4ever said if you use goof off go outdoors. It is very strong but will remove the paint without shine..lots of cottonballs or rags that you can throw away. The heads of the AD are very hard and must be kept heated to root...need lots of needles. Remove the wig hair glue with goof off. You can reuse the bodies if necessary (I very rarely reuse the bodies unless it's for a ltd ed.). PG depending on the scupt may have a small hole in the top of the head that you have to fill it in with a piece of matching vinyl that you can sometimed cut from the inside of the limb or head "ring" and glue it in place. The preemies have the top of the head cut open so you would have to glue it closed (it was a mess rooting them, but it can be done) because the neck is so tiny. Remove the wig hair glue with goof off. Just depends on the size sculpt that you have. The bodies are not useful to me what so ever. The stuffing which is not of good quality, I would only use inside the head. I have pics of some like this and can email you how they will look. Berenguers have hard heads. You have to sand the hairlines down that kinda of helps with the hardness, then use acetone...try not to drip it down on the face to prevent shiny spots and wipe it down for a smoother look following the hairline that you sanded.
Wash them in dawn dishwashing liquid and let air dry. The goof off odor will die down within a few days. If you want the babies to look more presentable I would replace the body if you can.
They will all look very nice when reborn. Another tip is if it's too hard for you at first, get a cute little mohair wig and glue it on with E-6000, and style it as an alternative. I haven't tried Rosemarie's tip but it sounds like it would be worth it to try. I think I will...hate the smell of goof off! Hope this helps you even a little!
I am going to bookmark this page for easy reference.
Judie - thanks for all the advice about AD and PG dolls. I wouldn't have guessed that the AD heads would be hard, since the bodies are so soft. And holes on the PG heads? Wow. I'll definitely have to take a look-see once they get here! Good thing I didn't pay too much for them! LOL
Rosemarie - Does the Windsor & Newton cleaner make the vinyl shiny? I really don't like shiny babies -- but don't care much for the smell of Goof Off either! Which one is better to use for stripping?
I was also wondering, since we are on the subject, what kinds of doll "materials" can you use the secrist paints on? (only a soft vinyl?) What about hard vinyls, plastics, and porcelains, or anything else?
If you go to the Genesis web site you'll see they were originally designed for canvas artists. As long as the surface can safely be heated to 265 F. for 8 minutes it takes to cure you should be able to use the paints on them. But to check out go here:
1. GOOF OFF IS TOXIC AND A CARCINOGEN! Before using please go to the manufacturers website and look at the MSDS sheet on it. Also, if you are determined to use it, like was said, use it outdoors, wash immediately is hot sudsy water, and rinse well as it will leave a residue and penetrate the vinyl. Also, use rubber gloves as it can cause nerve damage (I know, I have it from using that stuff). It is used as a parts solvent in aircraft and automotive industry.
2. You can use Genesis on porcelain, vinyl, vinyl/silicone mix, but not on plastic, hard plastic/vinyl, or silicone, as Genesis says not to, they are not compatable. You may not see the effects/damage right away but it will happen somewhere down the line.
Thank you! I didn't realize there was a difference between vinyl and plastic! So scratch my comment about using them on anything that can safely be heated to 265 F.!
I have done several brands of dolls. Secrist and DD kits are probably the easiest to work with, but in terms of dolls rather than kits, they do take longer because you have to take them apart and strip off the hair and the paint.
Ashton Drake dolls-- They are some of the most expensive, and the glued on hair is sometimes a pain to remove. However, they have a wide range of sculpts and they are generally well-made and well-proportioned. You can usually reuse the bodies. Hardness of the head varies, but all that I have done can be rooted. The vinyl colors vary and some of them have strange purplish undertones.
Berenguer dolls-- These are usually inexpensive and widely available at any toy store. The vinyl is harder than the Secrist vinyl and many people have difficulty rooting it. I have done it over the hair lines (and you do have to root it thickly) and I have also done it after removing the hairlines with a Dremel. Both ways worked just fine for me, but when I rooted over the hairlines, I had to use a 38 gauge needle instead of the 42 that I usually use.
Paradise Gallery dolls-- The vinyl is soft and easy to work with, but the color is sometimes strange (too pinkish purplish). I have had trouble with some of them having too smooth of a texture, which made it more difficult to get the paint to stick. The bodies are poorly proportioned and poorly made; I never reuse them.
Lee Middleton dolls-- The vinyl on these dolls is usually very hard, and there is a hole in the top of their head, so wigs are the best option. The vinyl is a realistic skin tone and the bodies are good quality jointed bodies that are worth reusing.
Paint removal-- I always use acetone. It's cheaper, safer, and more effective than Goof Off.
I've done one ashton drake in the past, they are easy to take apart - just snip the cable ties and your done...
it's fine to reuse the same body, just rethread a new cable tie and tighten around the limb/head
to strip i used acetone, on an old towel... this is outside work as very smelly. There isn't actually alot of paint to remove on the ashton drake, its mostly vinyl with a little blushing, nail and lip colour. Comes off very quickly.
the hair is glued on, i pulled what i could off, and then used acetone to remove the rest. Again this didn't take much effort.
then your ready to start over.
I'm waiting on an ashton drake to be released by customs quarantine, so i'll be doing another soon... if i'm willing to go back and do again, it means the stripping etc was pretty easy. Also the vinyl was easy to work with when re-reborning.
the head of the ashton drake is harder... it seems to be a soft vinyl over a hard inner skull. Easy enough to root though if you just keep heating it in the oven as you work... about 4 or 5 minutes at the same temp we use to set the paints. This heats it enough to make the rooting of the hair an easy process.
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berenguers are very hard and no fun to root, also you have to sand off the hair groves that are already in the plastic
A. Juan, aren't too bad - they smell alot when baking though and its a very very bitter smell that i would guess is toxic. I've done the "Lillian" 2'ice though, but had to sand of hair lines and the limbs are sewn onto the body - no groves for cable ties, so i ended up getting different limbs.